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TOPIC: Baby steps

Baby steps 05 Apr 2015 22:23 #23208

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Today I learned that when switching sides and !min don't work, and scores are spiraling out of control, it is possible to use !force pl red/blue. :unsure: Gee, "moderators" can't use !ch, so I assumed !force was also out of reach.

Too bad I only discovered this after a game escalated to a 20-1 today. :sick:

Feel free to pm me advice about how to do a better job.
“The whole secret lies in confusing the enemy, so that he cannot fathom our real intent.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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Baby steps 05 Apr 2015 22:35 #23209

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Interesting!
As mod you should be able to use the force command, but you are right that !ch is not available for moderators...its from admin upwards.
I don't know why you can't use !force, Snail could check it.
Here is a list of the B3 commands for KRH Funny , should be the same for Classic:
clankrh.com/b3/krhfunny/commands.html

Feel free to ask Snail or the seniors if you need help with the commands.
:cheers:
Legalise the Balisongs !
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Baby steps 05 Apr 2015 22:41 #23210

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I don't really get why !ch is only for level 40+, since it just combines two !force commands...

EDIT
I almost forgot ... welcome to the forum Mistake!
Last Edit: 05 Apr 2015 23:48 by Raider.
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Baby steps 06 Apr 2015 20:02 #23211

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Originally moderators had just access to the basic commands, until they can be admins.
The fine balancing became just later so important. But for so many: even when I am online can see some new moderators, who keep playing in the stronger team, without doing any balance.
Please remember: the best begins with yourself. So I suggest to quit stronger teap (spec) and join weaker.

The second is just !min.
As I several times suggested: the best to use it is at the map beginning.
This command can be used badly as well: I have information about a moderator, who keeps writing this too many times.
Please note: too much changes confuses players and fragments the game.

So we arrived to !sk. At the beginning I though this would be a useful command, but later I had to determine, that this command makes too much confusion because it calculates the skill level of ALL online player, and whil it compares their skill level this makes B3 too busy and laggy maybe. Don't use it over 12 players please.

And what about !ch? You can use it in two different ways. You can switch yourself with a player with giving one name only (!ch lamm), or you can switch two players (!ch lamm qna).
The problem with !ch is that this is personal. You have to name and switch a player, who probably will not like it.

So so far the best solution is this switch yourself and !min.
Maybe if someone could extend for me the poweradmin plugin that it could make !min automaticaly? :oops:
clankrh.com/b3/krhfunny/commands.html
Maybe like this (my theoretical extensions are at the bottom:
    <settings name="teambalancer">
        <!-- tinterval sets checking intervals in seconds, 0 disables function -->
        <set name="tinterval">20</set>
        <!-- how much difference should we tolerate -->
        <set name="teamdifference">1</set>
        <!-- maxlevel and above won't be balanced so admins can help weaker teams -->
        <set name="maxlevel">20</set>
        <!-- announce: 0 = silent, 1 = console say, 2 = center screen -->
        <set name="announce">2</set>
        <!-- if True, maintain balance when clients change teams - if False, don't -->
        <set name="team_change_force_balance_enable">True</set>
        <!-- specify which gametypes to autobalance - separate with space or comma -->
        <!-- FreeForAll=dm, TeamDeathMatch=tdm, Team Survivor=ts, Follow the Leader=ftl, Capture and Hold=cah, Capture The Flag=ctf, Bombmode=bm -->
        <set name="autobalance_gametypes">tdm,ctf,ts,cah,ftl</set>
        <!-- If a player is locked using !paforceteam, should it be permanent? False releases all locks on gameExit -->
        <set name="teamLocksPermanent">False</set>
        <!-- Don't run check for 60 seconds after start -->
        <set name="timedelay">0</set>
 
        <set name="autobalance">True</set>
        <!-- Enables auto balancing -->
        <set name="autobalancetime">2</set>
        <!-- Sets the auto balancing time in minutes -->
        <set name="autobalancelevel">40</set>
        <!-- Auto balancing is allowed only up to to this level -->
 
    </settings>
 

This is how I can imagine it. Anyone can extend the plugin please or have a better idea? Thanks in advance.
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Baby steps 09 Apr 2015 11:25 #23224

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it is my impression, that in general !sk works better than !teams, !min or !bal. but since i dont know, what they are really doing, i.e. algorithmically, i cant tell, which one is best suited. !sk or "skill shuffle" seems to balance teams depending on fair distribution of skill more efficiently. but i think it only recognizes the skill of a player for the time he has been playing on a single map. so if he just joined the game or a new map is started and all stats are down to zero again, then its more random. but may be, i'm under the wrong impression, and it actually gathers the general player stats. if somebody knows, please tell me :).

you can use !sk as moderator
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2015 11:29 by happahappa.
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Baby steps 09 Apr 2015 21:05 #23227

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Good question! Erm I started to post here some command descriptions and advices, but failed to post due to some problems. I would like to ask for some patience, thanks!
:oops:
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Last Edit: 09 Apr 2015 21:06 by LammeSnail.
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Baby steps 16 Apr 2015 14:12 #23270

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Well there are different commands to maintain the teams. I will try to add some pro/cons after the description plus my own remarks. I hope it helps. (Maybe my description isn't exact enough, but it will contain the basics).
Please note the minimum level to access the commands may be different!

!teams
Desc: this does nothing special, only equals the teams when one team has 2 or more players like the other.

Pro: basic tool for maintain the teams. Even registered players have access to it.
Con: will not change or balance when the stronger team has 1 player plus.
Calculates no skill levels at all.

My own: But you can use this command for fair balancing, if you play in the stronger team but can't join the other team (weaker has more players). You can go to spec, type !teams and now join the weaker team.
The !teams command will executed by B3 in every 30 seconds automatically...

!min
Desc: this command calculates the skill level of both teams, and tries to equal them by moving only 2-2 players.

Pro: makes not much confusion (players doesn't always like when they are forced to team change during the game!)
Con: Sometimes it doesn't do the job / not enough result.

My own: When the teams were unbalanced on the last map, I suggest to do the balancing at the map beginning!
And please don't use this command too frequently (some admins use it 5-6 times after each other).
I suggest to do it maximum 2 (3) times after each other, and better to use it at the map start and at the middle. In the last 2 minutes better not…

!ch
Desc: changes the team of a player. !ch xy changes YOU with xy, while !ch xy zz changes xy player with zz in the opposite team.
Calculates no skill levels at all.

Pro: Easiest tool for fair and skilled admins.
Con: Players might feel personal (and dislike), when they were chosen.

My own: To avoid the anger of players, you can !mute yourself. Or you can use the "go to spec and !teams" above instead.

!sk
Desc: this command calculates the skill level of both teams by players, and tries to equal them.

Pro: Might make the teams fair
Con: makes too much confusion (players don't always like when forced to team change during the game and this can change everyone!)
makes B3 too busy. this is a problem because when you use the command at too many players, this will load the B3 queue full, and B3 commands and events might delay or miss

My own: In certain circumstances !min has a definite advantage vs. !sk and I will explain it at the end. The other problem is that this skill calculation makes B3 very busy, and all other commands stay in the queue and may be delayed or cancelled at many online players. Please if possible never use !sk after the map was started or when there are 20+ players online!

!shuffleteams
Desc: this makes a random mix. Please NEVER execute this command when the map runs already, because this restarts the map (with the full map play time!)!

Pro: erm?

Con: Random mix can do a really bad skill balance.
My own: In the last times I didn’t use this command. Sooner I used to do a balancing at the map beginning always like this:
- map starts, countdown runs, some players are still connecting: I wait until time is 5-3
- I executed !shuffleteams – this restarted the clock and countdown starts at 15 again… more players could connect
- At about 5 sec I executed !sk for maximum skill balance. At that point probably all players were already connected and online.
But all this were effective only when FUNNY was a new server with usually 6-16 players online, not more.

Though there is an important thing about skill calculation. All this balancing happens by the built in rules of xlrstats/B3. But we made some changes after =0g=babbler discovered some huge mistakes.
B3 applies the ELO rating system (which was developed by a Hungarian born mathematician)…
Babbler discovered the following problem in xlrstats:
B3 takes for all unregistered players (level 0) the skill value of “world”, which is by default 1000. Players can register manually (!register), or will be registered after 25 connections by autoleveler plugin.
So the main problem is, when unregistered players are online: this can ruin all the calculations.
Watch this link:
clankrh.com/xlrstats/?config=2
The current player with highest skill value is Balaur, his skill point is at this time 3317.
And if you scroll to the tenth page and check the 200. player, he/she has 2178 points:
clankrh.com/xlrstats/index.php?func=show&page=1&pagenumber=10

I hope it is clear what I mean. There are not much registered players below 1000 skill points.

And the solution what =0g=babbler suggested: I re-calculate sometimes the average skill of ALL players, and set this to “world”.
SELECT AVG (skill) FROM `xlr_playerstats`
This will not calculate a not registered player with the ultra-rookie 1000 skill points, but with the average skill (this is now about 1950 on CLASSIC and 2500 on FUNNY).

If you still have any questions, feel free to ask.
(And some personal suggestion to moderators/admins: if you are a skilled player, please don’t stay in the leading team, when your team has more players… thanks)!

You can find more useful stuff on our server pages (B3 command list with levels, etc):
clankrh.com/index.php/en/servers/server-list/krh-4-2-funny-ctf
clankrh.com/index.php/en/servers/server-...krh-4-2-training-ctf

CU HF!
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Baby steps 16 Apr 2015 15:00 #23272

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Easy fix for !shuffleteams.
set g_shuffleNoRestart "1" // 1= no restart when shuffling teams, 0 = map restart uppon shuffle. (Default 0)
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Baby steps 16 Apr 2015 15:51 #23273

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-O- wrote:
Easy fix for !shuffleteams.
set g_shuffleNoRestart "1" // 1= no restart when shuffling teams, 0 = map restart uppon shuffle. (Default 0)

I know, but this is set here deliberately so. Why?
Admins shouldn't do !shuffleteams during a match, because the mindless no skill based balancing adds nothing to the game, just a simple confusion to every player (this was a real pain in the *ss on a server with FriendlyFire on, when you suddenly have to attack your previous team...)
And as I used to use it: when you execute the !shuffleteam command at the map beginning, restart on or off isn't so important, but the restart gave us some extra seconds that all players can connect (or download the map and connect), so the later skill balancing command could be more effective with more players...
:smart:
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Baby steps 16 Apr 2015 18:56 #23276

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I never did.
Just an extra option.
Since you dont like !sk use when server is populated there isn't many ways.
Over the balance options i wish that B3 could spam less.
Connection messages, killspree, try to kill someone, headshots, nades etc.
Anyone can look up their awesome stats in website or with commands in server.
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Baby steps 16 Apr 2015 22:17 #23279

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I do not know, maybe it's just me luck. But quite often !min distributes players are not in the right way. Creates an even greater imbalance. And I have to do again.
Although I seems better as little as possible to interfere with gameplay with !min og !sk. !Sk do at the beginning, but not at the end. You can always go to a weak team.
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Baby steps 16 Apr 2015 23:49 #23282

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I use !suffleteams at the begining of the map, ONLY if on previous maps !min did not worked as i expected. After !suffleteams i use !min , then !teams if teams are unballanced.
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Who banned them? I wanted to play 3-4 days ago, but there was no bots...I waited 5-10 minutes i think, but the bots did not apear...So i had to leave the server.

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WTH did you permban the bots? They are there for a reason!!!!

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